Although women still face considerable challenges to get their movies greenlit, Joanna Hogg has made a sequel to her breakout hit, The Souvenir. The story is about a young film student whose love is not enough to save a charismatic addict. The way it is told takes us inside Honor Swinton Byrne’s seduction at the hands of a sophisticated older man who broadens her view of life, but who is so damaged, his pain causes her pain. The Souvenir: Part II is a reconstruction of emergence and the stages of grieving that the astute viewer will see in colors and textures as the protagonist moves from being governed by others’ voices and wishes for her destiny to wrestling her voice free to embark on her path. It is a flawed, confused, and ultimately a specific voice and actualization of vision.

Ms. Hogg who collaborated with the young Tilda Swinton before she became famous, exposes a halting vulnerability in the veteran actress while showcasing Honor Swinton Byrne, (Tilda’s daughter), as a talent to watch. Others who lent their ability in small and pivotal roles are Charlie Heaton, Joe Alwyn and Harris Dickson.

How were you able to get to make a sequel when, in your own words, you were still digesting how you felt about The Souvenir I?

I don’t know if it’s luck or a question of the right place at the right time. I’m blessed with wonderful collaborators. I worked with BBC film, the BFI and A24, and another collaborator, so the gender thing doesn’t come into it. I know it’s important to encourage female filmmakers, but I don’t feel I’m listened to less because I’m a woman. Maybe that’s why these stories are seen as valuable now. It’s a good time for us.

The Souvenir: Part II is a journey of grief but also an emergence of the character learning to raise her own voice.

That was of the utmost importance and the drive in me wanting to make these films – to give a voice to this young woman, maybe because it took me a long time to find the themes I was interested in and to find what I wanted to say. When I first conceived of The Souvenir I and II, it was at a time when women’s voices were not being talked about that much.

My thought was that no one is talking about a female artist, let alone a female film director, and I wanted to see her journey. It felt like I conceived it, and I wanted to be a pioneer of this. You always want to feel like you are being the first to talk about this thing. Suddenly, I wasn’t alone. It almost derailed it for me, strangely. With each idea or film I make, there’s something about treading new ground. There was a point where I thought, ‘Maybe this isn’t new ground? We are all talking about women finding their voice.’

There’s the archetypal idea that men in a crisis throw themselves into work and women break down, but not here. The main character is dealing with grief but channeling it in a way heroines don’t usually on screen.

It wasn’t a choice; it was what I did. It was what I experienced when a similar event happened. That may be why I create. It is necessary for me to create something out of what I am going through. It’s an impetus I have. Even if I find myself in an awkward situation – say a conversation – I’m always tempted to include it in a scenario. I’m inspired by difficulty.

 

Talk a little about how you work with your actors.

Not always in the same way, so much depends on the performer and what they bring to it. I’m there to encourage and elicit. I’m not totally responsible for what they do. I have a knack for casting but once I’ve cast, it is down to them. I observe them and see what they need. They might need a bit of encouragement, or they need something written down because I tend not to work with a screenplay. With Honor in The Souvenir I, she jumped in with no knowledge of the story and it was unfolding for her in a natural way because I shoot in order.

She met Tom Burke, who plays Anthony, for the first time at the party at the beginning of Part One, and bravely went on the journey not knowing where she would end up. Tom knew where he was going. I gave him all the information so he could do a lot of research. So that’s an example of two very different approaches.

You cast Tilda Swinton before she was known, and we see her work with her daughter in your movie. How did you cast her originally and now both of you are successful, how different is it collaborating?

It always surprises me that there’s so much time in-between, why it took us so long to work together. We’ve been friends all along and only just started to work together again. I cast her in a film that was never finished, that was alluded to at the end of Part One, The Rehearsal, shot in black and white before she made any other films. She was at Cambridge University and I was at film school, and I fancied working with her. It was a semi-documentary. It was an actress rehearsing for a role, Isabella, in Measure for Measure. She was briefly with the Royal Shakespeare company. I was inspired by Ingmar Bergman’s The Rehearsal.  I always want to see behind things. It was an actress preparing for a role. Then we made my graduation film, Caprice, and then not again until The Souvenir.

There is a degree of denial when in a relationship with a person with an addiction. In the sequel, there’s this scene where the father pretends that the mother doesn’t smoke – that’s where she learned to create the concealers in a relationship. It’s a clever echo.

I hadn’t seen the echo until you mentioned it. It’s a product of my upbringing; it seems a normal way of being.

Let’s talk about being a woman who owns her voice and must tell others what to do. You seem like you have a subtle way of doing things and you say you were shy when you started out. How did you navigate owning your power?

I don’t see it like that. A story gets under my skin, and I do everything I can to realize the project. It’s not me, it’s the vision. I will do everything to make the passion a reality. If I feel observed while making a film, it’s uncomfortable for me and I get self-conscious. It’s a separation between me and the object (the film) that I’m in love with, that I want to create.

The color palette and textures of the movie very much seemed in sync with the arc of the movie.

There was a method that was about the stages of grief. In my own experience – I recall reading Elisabeth Kubler Ross – that there are stages to grieving. We gave a different color to each stage. The grieving Julie goes through has different colors, ending up with gold which we saw as acceptance. There was a further stage, multi-grained which is integration. I like to have a map, even if we don’t keep strictly to that map. It gives a feeling. Texture was really important. The 1980s had a lot of texture. Now it’s all technology and phones and it’s lost some meaning. I wanted to feel the typewriter, the pen, a piece of paper – I wanted to feel these things.

You ended the previous movie inside the door of this hanger with blue skies and positivity, and then you began this film with the same hangar but with rain visible through the doors.

The first choice was where to shoot the film. What decided it were those doors we end on at the end of Part I, out of which we see the countryside and the trees. Those doors were amazing. The scale of them and the potential of this aircraft hangar we found. It looked on to pure countryside. That was exciting to me – the weather outside.

We didn’t have the budget to create rain when we needed to have it. I often feel weather occurs when we need it in the story, and there’s a certain amount of luck.

Not that many movies get to have a sequel. Do you have any words of advice for your fellow filmmakers?

I’ve got one sentence: I never accept no for an answer. I’m really stubborn about getting what I want. Don’t expect the journey to be easy. I’m not sure I’d be doing what I’m doing now had I not been in front of those tutors who told me I couldn’t do what I wanted to do. There is no shortcut. It’s taken me a hell of a long time, and in many ways, I don’t have that much time left. I could easily think, ‘What a shame I didn’t make those films earlier than I did,’ but I totally accept where I am. It can take time, but then I see young women directors coming forward and it’s not taking them that time. It doesn’t have to, but for me, it’s been a long journey and not always easy. Now I recognize that in terms of the process, it’s easier for me. I started off with a very particular working method and now if someone is going to finance one of my films, they have to go along with all of these things I do. I’m not going to change how I work in order to please somebody.